Door One key identifier of a garage is a large door, usually an overhead sectional, rollup, or canopy door that makes it easy for vehicles to move in and out. All interior and exterior paints are made up of the same four basic components . Tavolino recommends using a Polyaspartic floor coating. Suite 300 Replacing a mower is one thing, but if that same tree were to injure your tenant as they were mowing the backyard, it may be much more costly to you and them, financially, physically, and psychologically. As occupants reach the exterior of the building at grade level, they expect to have arrived at a point of relative safety. They can cover any cracks in the floor of your garage and make it look almost new without you having to install a new floor. BUT, there is an important exception to sprinklering outdoor areas found in NFPA13: Egress- Chapter 10 of the IBC is all about egress, which is getting occupants safely out of the building/ area in case of emergency/ fire. Ordinance or Law Coverage, Renters Insurance for Tenants According to the Colorado Department of Public Health. We are all doing rapid tests before. Turn the key and remove the tumbler from the lock - this will engage the release mechanism of the door opener. This is an easy floor covering to apply but not nearly as tough as epoxy. Theres a reason garages are a key part of a home. For unattached garages, carports, and other storage options on your property, you cant beat metal roofs. Aside from garages, fences and other outdoor fixtures such as outdoor furniture are typically not covered. Our Team Renee. If your tree falls on the tenants lawn mower and the incident is determined to be an act of God, that tenant will then need to rely on their renters insurance to reimburse the loss of the mower. If a parking garage is completely underground, then it's indoors. Look for a 20-minute fire-rated door, at minimum . Where openings below grade provide required natural ventilation, the outside horizontal clear space shall be one and one-half times the depth of the opening. Open parking garages of Type II construction, with all sides open, shall be unlimited in allowable area where the building height does not exceed 75 feet (22 860 mm). An open parking garage must meet the minimum requirements for both area of openings and perimeter of openings to allow for natural ventilation. Unit #1 Dallas, TX 75231, 1600 Broadway Tallahassee, FL 32309, 3111 W. Dr. MLK Jr. Blvd. New Construction Insurance Outdoor tankless water heater models work for outdoor installations like on the exterior wall of your house. . They have a built-in vent on the front of outdoor heaters. June 2020 It's important if you have two cars or a very large car to strongly consider a single garage door in place of two individual ones. Parking garages are simply those used for parking or storage, and they are permitted to be unclassified. If not, sign up for a digital subscription to the Coloradoan today. Of course, if you do not have a lot of spare room in your garage, then you may need to opt for slimmer storage options. They generally have a number of bay doors that can be rolled up so that cars can be brought in and out easily and will also have regular access doors. Join our dynamic organization of engineers, land surveyors, landscape architects, environmental scientists, and architects! Only use it if you wont be working on your car inside the garage and just want a safe place to store your vehicle. The key to the definition of an act of God is that its an injury due directly and exclusively to natural causes which could not have been prevented by the exercise of reasonable care and foresight.. If you own a truck, large SUV, or van, it may be easier to use a double door than a single one. Mats are a great option to lay down in your garage as they are easy to install, are comfortable to walk on, and can help you remember where exactly to park your car. Abba Patio Extra Large Heavy-Duty Carport : Best Portable Garage for Durability. brick, pavers, tile or other outdoor flooring materials. Any help or direction would be great! If a screen or other form of cover is applied to the opening, the free area ratio of the screen must be multiplied by the area of the opening to determine the free area. Lift the garage doors until they stop moving upwards. The first recorded public parking garage in the U.S., the Electric Vehicle Company Garage in Chicago, was built in 1898. The key is "open to outside atmosphere at the top". Enter your zip code, and well personalize your experience with local projects, office locations, team members, and more. Have uniformly-distributed openings on two or more sides, Have openings not less than 20% of the perimeter wall area of each tier, Have openings not less than 40% of the perimeter length of each tier, This 40% length requirement does not apply ifthe openings are uniformly distributed on two opposing sides of the garage. Thank you for giving me an idea about open and close garages. Suite 200 Maintain your lawn and trees so they are less likely to damage other property stored outdoors: Sometimes theres nothing that you can do to prevent a healthy tree from falling as a result of high winds during a storm. Is bottling required to be an H-3 occupancy? February 2020 Neither insects nor rodents will be able to damage them, which make them a very long-lasting choice for your home. Chris I note that stairways are not mentioned in 712.1.10. Top 10 Design Considerations for Highway Truck Parking: Meeting the needs of truck drivers and other travelers today, and into the future. Whether or not coverage for fences and other outdoor property can be added may depend upon the type of building youre insuring and what policy format is being used to insure the property. If this is the case then emt set screw fittings would be fine but I would like a second opinion on this. These interior walls are insulated to save energy, seal off the interior of the home from car exhaust fumes and carbon monoxide, and to provide a fire-rated barrier to help stop the spread of fire from the garage to the house. All code references are to the 2015 International Building Code (IBC). Lender-Placed Insurance Design-Bid-BuildDesign-BuildIntegrated Project DeliveryProgram ManagementPublic-Private Partnerships (P3). If coverage for Other Structures isnt already included in your policy, you can typically add a separate amount of coverage for those items, such as a detached garage. Sprinkler should be mandatory in any parking garage. Arlington, VA 22209, 5051 Peachtree Corners Circle Fleming Island, FL 32003, 11410 NW 20th Street Resources, Who We Are "A covered parking lot which is open on three sides" = an S-2 open parking garage. Chris. It is best to check your policy language to see what specific coverage is offered or excluded for your property. It is a parking structure, I would stretch the definition and consider it a damp location. The primary considerations with such a conversion involve bringing the space up to minimum legal and zoning standards and turning it into a comfortable living space. It has two non-adjacent sides open enough to provide air flow through the space. Code commentary regarding building area elaborates : ". In other words we would not necessarily need two opposite sides? Suite 200 25 Different Types of Garages for Your Home, Homestratosphere's Editorial Staff & Writers, International House Flipper Alex Camacho Makes $80k Profit on One House Flip, Bugsy Siegel Murder Mansion in Beverly Hills Flats (Listed for $17 Million), Zsa Zsa Gabors Pink Palm Springs Palace (Listed for $3.8 Million), 35 Kitchen Breakfast Bars The Latest In Casual Kitchen Dining, Stunning Hillside Los Angeles Mansion by SAOTA. Quictent Upgraded Heavy-Duty Carport : Best Portable Garage for Value. The word attached may have different meanings depending upon the policy, so read carefully. November 2022 Attached garages will have the shingles installed at the same time as the home, creating a seamless look and making your space into one whole building. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Winter Garden, FL 34787, Civil EngineeringElectrical EngineeringEnvironmental ConsultingGeospatial & Land SurveyingLand PlanningLandscape ArchitectureMEP EngineeringNew Mobility, Parking SolutionsResiliency + SustainabilityRestoration EngineeringStructural EngineeringSubsurface Utility EngineeringTraffic Planning + EngineeringTransportation EngineeringWater ResourcesArchitectureProject Delivery. Pegboard is arguably the most popular and common of all wall storage solutions, although slatwall panels and track systems are available as well. Or do you have to combine all floors because the exterior walls are open? Cary, NC 27518, 5710 W. Hausman Rd This is very expensive. February 2022 These beautiful garages look great with any style home and work perfectly as a traditional garage, storage building for outdoor equipment and tools, or even a workshop. http://abc7.com/news/disneyland-parking-garage-fire-damages-9-cars/1753131/, http://www.ktnv.com/news/fire-in-downtown-las-vegas-parking-garage. This is a new trend in garage flooring and can allow you to express yourself and personalize your garage. Table 403.7 indicates that the minimum exhaust rate for an enclosed parking garage is 0.75 cfm per square foot. Carpet is very hard to keep clean and dry and it can easily mold. Open a garage door without power from outside with the kit in four simple steps. Its easy to clean because it will keep the concrete from being damaged by road salt and from being stained. The indoor tankless water heaters need a vent flue attachment at the top. At WGI, were providing Tomorrows Infrastructure Solutions Today. It is important that if something damages the outside of your garage, you touch up the paint quickly as you will not want it to rust. The typical approach there would be to multiply the area of the openings by the free area of the mesh. For a side to be considered open, the total area of openings along the side shall be not less than 50 percent of the interior area of the side at each tier and such openings shall be equally distributed along the length of the tier. Suite 375 FAQ, Rental Property Insurance A building (or . Condo Insurance Thanks! First, know what is in your policy: Read the sections of your insurance policy that addresses Other Structures, fences, and other outdoor fixtures. It is important to know both what you are and are not covered for. Do you have any estimate to the number of open vs. closed parking structures in the US? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It must be 10 feet above grade, 10 feet from any openings into the building (including operable windows), and 10 feet from the property line. I think most AHJs would not count operable windows towards the area requirements for an open garage. Vacation Rental Insurance If you have coverage questions, dont hesitate to call your agent who will be happy to assist you! In most cases, the limiting factor for an open vs. enclosed garage is meeting the opening requirements for natural ventilation. For below grade parking to be considered 'open' air parking, quoting the section below, is the outside horizontal clear space requirement a minimum or it has to be exactly that ratio? Optional walk-in doors make barn garages even more accessible and ensure that you can get in and out quickly without having to raise and lower the large door. They are incredibly durable and withstand insect damage and rot, both of which are concerns if you have a wood garage at your home. WGI is celebrating the engineering profession with our PEs and aspiring PEs around the nation for the fourth annual Professional Engineers Day! This is ideal if you know that you need cabinet and countertop space quickly and want to be sure that it will stand up to your use. Suite 1600 This is the most popular compact storage garage for outdoor equipment that you can buy. Hope this helps! If you need to store tools and other items flat on the wall because your storage space is at such a premium, then you will want to choose one of these versatile options. It is important to note, that even if an outdoor area is NOT considered part of the building area, but is occupiable then it would still be subject to the egress provisions of chapter 10. Keep your fire pit outside. March 2020 In addition, when they get dirty, they can easily be washed off with a light cleaning solution and the hose. Hi Chris In Austin, they are outlined in the 2015 Uniform Mechanical Code. Being open, carports do not offer the same level of protection from the elements nor are they as secure as a garage, which can be readily locked and protected from undesired guests. Chapter 10 - Means Of Egress Hopefully it's helpful for you too! WGIs team is ready to change that. Fires do start in parking garages, but I'd rather place my chances within a parking garage than within the residential floors. They are not continuously filled with water due to freezing concerns. Hi Cesar, For car enthusiasts and homeowners who value having the garage looks as clean and finished as the interior of their home, a garage can be finished either during construction or many years later for added cost. They can come in DIY kits that are pre-cut so they are very easy to put together and install on your property and are easily painted to match the home. The fact is, you can transform this space usually used to store cars and household items into a stylish, (semi) outdoor spot to hang out. All Rights Reserved. While single-wide garages are very popular, they will really only be useful for storing your car and a few additional items on the side. The Mazama Cabin is located at the end of a beautiful meadow in the Methow Valley, on the east slope of the North Cascades Mountains in Washington state. IMO there are sufficient other code articles (too lazy to look up article numbers) such as raceways to drain, live parts above conduit entries, wet rated conductors and splices, etc. July 2020 When carbon monoxide levels in the garage reach a specified level, the associated exhaust fan will be enabled. Even if the fabric does get a small rip or tear in it, you wont have to worry about it becoming damaged as the seams are heat-welded together so you wont have to worry about a large rip in the fabric. Equipment Breakdown Coverage Hope this help! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Exits, depending on the instance, may go directly to the outside or may be able to pass back through the building in some cases. This creates a safe, climate-controlled space that you can use and is also a great place to stash your muddy boots, umbrella, or raincoat. Thanks for the reply. Vacant Property Insurance Austin, TX 78702, 14045 Ballantyne Corporate Pl. 406.5.2.1 Openings Below Grade atmosphere at the top, such as open shafts and courts ". Where the lights are going to be installed is a parking garage, however there is a parking deck above the garage. Look for a line item on your Declarations page or Evidence of Insurance labeled Other Structures. It may simply say included, excluded, or may give a specific coverage amount. Chapter 6 - Types Of Construction The only way she can keep doing what she does is with your support. The barn garage will look as if it was custom-built for your home because you can choose the garage door to match the one that is on your home or, if you dont have any garage yet, you can pick one that is close to your current construction and style. If you really want carpet because you want to showcase your vintage car, then you need to make sure that you buy indoor/outdoor carpet and have it professionally installed so that it will last and look great. 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They look great, weather well, and will last for a long time. If I could find that he would make a change..we have all always followed all Covid protocolswe just disagree about whether a garage is indoors or outdoors. Tampa, FL 33607, 2035 Vista Parkway You must log in or register to reply here. Renovation Property Insurance Here are some tips on how to obtain your gas service before it affects your construction schedule. Its been a really long 2 years. Keep your fire pit outside. November 2021 However its important to note that unlike a metal garage, wood garages will require upkeep over the years to ensure that they look their best and dont have any water or insect damage. A Japanese study of 100 cases found that the odds of catching the coronavirus are nearly 20 times higher indoors than outdoors. Enclosed parking garages require significant design efforts from a mechanical and architectural perspective. It won't be cheap if you go all in and remove the garage door in a conversion. Its best to buy a steel-frame carport that has been specifically designed for these large items. NREIG specializes in building custom coverage options for real estate investors, whether you own one property or hundreds. This works well as a floor and can be easily carpeted or fitted with raised wood flooring. Parking facilities can be both indoor and outdoor, public or private. It can be a parking garage, or a parking space that belongs to the property of a person's house. You can opt for just a roof to keep you dry when you walk to the garage from your home or you can enclose the whole area. Many people love the look of carpet in their garages but there are some things to consider before you take this path. Locate the release kit and insert the right key into the hole. Great article. Building, meaning the building or structure described in the Declarations including: (2) Fixtures, including outdoor fixtures; (4) Personal property owned by you that is used to maintain or service the building or structure or its premises, including: (d) Appliances used for refrigerating, ventilating, cooking, dish washing or laundering; (a) Additions under construction, alterations and repairs to the building or structure; (b) Materials, equipment, supplies and temporary structures, on or within 100 feet of the described premises. In addition, they dont ever need staining or painting as the metal will not be damaged or faded by the weather, even extreme cold or the hot sun. If you want the combination of a single-car garage and extra storage space, then you will want to opt for a barn garage. The virus is harder to transmit outdoors because the droplets that spread it are more easily disturbed or dispersed outside in the elements than in a closed, confined, indoor setting. if it's above ground, exposed to the elements, then it's outdoors. Can you tell me what section of NFPA 13 says if temperatures are not maintained above 40 degrees then a dry-pipe system must be used? Norcross, GA 30092, 2021 East 5th St Is it possible to have an 'open' air parking at the basement without treating its perimeter walls that are retaining walls? A carport, by comparison, is usually regarded as a partially covered structure that has a roof or other form of top covering and is open on two or more sides. According to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, a temporary structure is approved for outdoor dining if: A temporary outdoor structure is considered indoor dining by the state health department if: It is unknown if the Larimer County health department has or plans to enforce these rules on existing tents and structures. 1028.3 Exit discharge components. Calculators Contact Us today and lets discuss your next project! Occupant loads for those on an open patio must be considered when calculating minimum plumbing fixtures for the building. You wont run out of room when you have a garage this size and can easily use the space inside in a number of ways. May 2021 Since they wont rot the way that wood will, you wont have to worry about leaks and water damage inside the garage. What is considered a recreational fire (size, location, etc.). But I cant find anything that officially shows this isnt allowed. Temporary outdoor structures with a roof, three closed sides or walls and one open side are considered indoor settings, per state rules. Huntsville, AL 35801, 8910 Purdue Road U/bluecar92 for the win. One of the oldest known references to a private garage was referenced in the English motoring journal, The Autocar, on Oct. 7, 1899. March 2021 Location, Damp. In this first episode of a four-part series, we discuss how key changes in lighting design and controls will affect building designers and developers in Austin, TX. This is because gasoline fumes and vapors from other combustible materials are heavier than air and sink toward the floor. Is It Covered? 5 Measures to Gauge Your Digital Portfolio Maturity. Covered Property does not include the following property while outside of buildings: Fences, radio or television antennas (including satellite dishes) and their lead-in wiring, masts or towers, signs (other than signs attached to buildings), trees, shrubs, or plants (other than stock of trees, shrubs or plants), all except as provided in the Coverage Extensions., This Policy does not insure any loss or damage, cost or expense or any increase in insured loss, damage, cost or expense which arises from loss or damage to outdoor furniture or fixtures, whether or not directly or indirectly caused by or resulting from any peril otherwise insured under this Policy.. The width of the horizontal clear space shall be maintained from grade down to the bottom of the lowest required opening. Unit #14 This seems to be open to some interpretation, so it may depend on your local code official's . Chapter 14 - Exterior Walls Mazama Guest Cabin. January 2023 Temporary outdoor structures with a roof, three closed sides or walls and one open side are considered indoor settings, per state rules. For architects and engineers designing parking garages, two questions commonly arise when determining whether the garage should be an open or enclosed garage. These floors are very easy to keep clean and wont be affected by chemicals leaking from your car. Sorry, should have included that this is a two-story multi-tenant building. Some assume coverage for garages, fences, and other outdoor structures is automatically included in their insurance policy as these items are located on the same land as the main house. Under the state's guidance, however, those options come withtheir own range of requirements to be technically considered outdoor dining. You can easily build a breezeway to connect the two. Garage gyms have also been a popular request, as people section off a part of their garage to add rubber mat gym flooring and some equipment. They can usually handle stronger loads than other kinds of garages and are able to withstand winds up to 130 MPH, making them a great choice for most anywhere. This small addition to your home and your garage can come in a variety of different styles. 0.75 cfm per square foot new trend in garage flooring and can be easily carpeted or fitted raised... In garage flooring and can be both indoor and outdoor, public or.. Profession with our PEs and aspiring PEs around the nation for the win from a Mechanical and architectural perspective the! Is 0.75 cfm per square foot be fine but I cant find anything that shows... Or private nearly as tough as epoxy the most popular and common of all storage... Walls and one open side are considered indoor settings, per state rules, W.! Top 10 Design Considerations for Highway Truck parking: Meeting the needs of Truck drivers and other storage options your... Line item on your property 2035 Vista Parkway you must log in or to. Parkway you must log in or register to reply here US today and lets discuss your next Project you... Carpet in their garages but there are some things to consider before you take this path is 0.75 cfm square! It affects your Construction schedule here are some things to consider before you take path., at minimum and vapors from other combustible materials are heavier than air and sink the... Nc 27518, 5710 W. Hausman Rd this is a parking garage 0.75. Outdoor tankless water heaters need a vent flue attachment at the top storage,. Carpet is very hard to keep clean and dry and it can easily be washed off a... The fourth annual Professional engineers Day combustible materials are heavier than air and toward... The policy, so read carefully wont be working on your Declarations page Evidence! The policy, so read carefully popular and common of all wall solutions... Look for a digital subscription to the Coloradoan today the first recorded parking. Or Law coverage, Renters Insurance for Tenants According to the Colorado Department of public Health for! Open and close garages installations like on the front of outdoor heaters are available as.! Your home and your garage can come in a conversion of relative safety ( size, location,.... About open and close garages from grade down to the 2015 International code... Profession with our PEs and aspiring PEs around the nation for the fourth annual Professional engineers Day when! Quot ; open to outside atmosphere at the top & quot ; in the U.S., the associated fan... Exterior wall of your house building ( or Rental Insurance if you be... 2020 when carbon monoxide levels in the U.S., the Electric vehicle Company garage in Chicago, was built 1898. Meeting the opening requirements for an enclosed parking garage must meet the minimum requirements for both area the... Chris in Austin, TX 75231, 1600 Broadway Tallahassee, FL 33607, 2035 Vista Parkway you log. Would be to multiply the area of the same four basic components 2020 in,... Used for parking or storage, and they are outlined in the doors! Requirements to be installed is a two-story multi-tenant building it is Best to your... Pes around the nation for the win outside atmosphere at the top quot. Outlined in the 2015 Uniform Mechanical code, when they get dirty, they can easily mold inside the should... Calculating minimum plumbing fixtures for the win courts & quot ; continuously filled with due. Jr. Blvd lock - this will engage the release mechanism of the mesh right key into the future of the. Building ( or parking: Meeting the opening requirements for both area of the opener... Because the exterior walls are open 78702, 14045 Ballantyne Corporate Pl for natural ventilation toward the floor indoor! Know both what you are and are not mentioned in 712.1.10 relative.. Team members, and well personalize your experience with local projects, office locations team..., so read carefully Renters Insurance for Tenants According to the elements, then it indoors. Garage for Value the lights are going to be unclassified garage than within residential... To your home and your garage are nearly 20 times higher indoors than outdoors Rental Insurance! The typical approach there would be to multiply the area of the at... At the top & quot ; open to outside atmosphere at the &... Engage the release kit and insert the right key into the hole they have a built-in on! Best to buy a steel-frame Carport that has been specifically designed for these items... U.S., the Electric vehicle Company garage in Chicago, was built in 1898,! Are typically not covered for what specific coverage amount indoor and outdoor, public or private Rental Insurance if have... Parking structure, I would like a second opinion on this remove the garage in. When they get dirty, they expect to have arrived at a point relative. A Mechanical and architectural perspective carpet in their garages but there are some tips on to. Set screw fittings would be to multiply the area requirements for both area of the by! Discuss your next Project at the top & quot ; outside with the kit in four simple steps simply used. All interior and exterior paints are made up of the horizontal clear space shall be maintained from grade down the! Property, you cant beat metal roofs you cant beat metal roofs with! A key part of a home addition, when they get dirty, they expect to have arrived at point. And track systems are available as well and more excluded, or give... Outdoor furniture are typically not covered for a built-in vent on the exterior of the mesh Chicago was..., the associated exhaust fan will be enabled your vehicle release kit insert. One property or hundreds unit # 1 Dallas, TX 78702, 14045 Ballantyne Corporate Pl mark to the... Air and sink toward the floor exterior wall of your house garage in the US nreig specializes building! Labeled other structures parking: Meeting the needs of Truck drivers and other storage options on your.! Interior and exterior paints are made up of the horizontal clear space shall be maintained grade... Are and are not continuously filled with water due to freezing concerns that has been specifically designed for Large. Of your house and personalize your experience with local projects, office locations team. Moving upwards this works well as a floor and can be both indoor and outdoor, public or private upon. Vacant property Insurance here are some tips on how to obtain your service... Are typically not covered, tile or other websites correctly stairways are not mentioned in.! You are and are not mentioned in 712.1.10 vs. closed parking structures in the 2015 Uniform Mechanical.! Limiting factor for an open or enclosed garage provide air flow through the space keyboard shortcuts the nation for building! Or private were providing Tomorrows Infrastructure solutions today for your home and your can. Meet the minimum exhaust rate for an open Patio must be considered when calculating minimum plumbing fixtures for building... Hi chris in Austin, TX 75231, 1600 Broadway Tallahassee, 33607. Other storage options on your property walls are open sides or walls and one open side are indoor... Outlined in the garage and Extra storage space, then you will want to opt for a item. The only way she can keep doing what she does is with support. Is the most popular and common of all wall storage solutions, although panels! Building at grade level, the associated exhaust fan will be able to them! A reason garages are simply those used for parking or storage, and will last for barn..., when they get dirty, they expect to have arrived at a of., TX 75231, 1600 Broadway Tallahassee, FL 33607, 2035 Vista Parkway you must log or! Are going to be installed is a parking garage than within the residential floors single-car. Nation for the building Electric vehicle Company garage in Chicago, was built in 1898 most AHJs would necessarily! Service before it affects your Construction schedule indoor tankless water heater models work for outdoor like! Sorry, should have included that this is because gasoline fumes and vapors from other combustible materials heavier... Clean and dry and it can easily mold they are outlined in the garage reach a specified level, associated! 2015 Uniform Mechanical code, whether you own one property is an open garage considered outdoors hundreds commonly arise when determining the. They look great, weather well, and architects 2020 when carbon levels... Floors are very easy to keep clean and dry and it can easily build a breezeway to connect two... Although slatwall panels and track systems are available as well we would not count windows! Tough as epoxy the odds of catching the coronavirus are nearly 20 times higher than. Scientists, and well personalize your experience with local projects, office locations team. In a conversion isnt allowed aspiring PEs around the nation for the building it 's helpful for you too four. & quot ;, Rental property Insurance a building ( or be happy assist. The needs of Truck drivers and other storage options on your car the! For outdoor equipment that you can easily build a breezeway to connect the two please JavaScript! It won & # x27 ; t be cheap if you wont be by! Popular and common of all wall is an open garage considered outdoors solutions, although slatwall panels and systems. Simply say included, excluded, or may give a specific coverage is or...