If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. What is rattling? I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: Couldn't agree more. So far so good. Hey Ralf Hauser!! So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. Thanks! In comparison, Shimano motors can be paired with third party batteries, and that opens up greater flexibility for bike designers (see the Orbea Rise and Pivot Shuttle for example). For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. I have never posted a comment here on pinkbike, however this article in particular is hitting a nerve. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. I love the progression of Ebikes! Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. I'm honestly flabbergasted that people complain about it tbh lol. Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. It's really, really quite quiet. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. 2. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and we're inclined to believe that claim. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. Is this a review for ants? The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. Along with the new EP8 motor, Shimano has also released a larger 630Wh battery, which seems to be the most popular option at the moment youll find it inside both the Canyon Spectral:ON and Merida eOne-Sixty. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. Repair and maintenance of Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and Brose eBike motors Repair and maintenance of eBike motors from the following manufacturers: Bosch Active Line, Bosch Active Line Plus, Bosch Cargo Line, Bosch Performance Line and Bosch Performance Line CX For more details on the full range of Bosch motors click here This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! Weve found the first two settings to be too weak for e-MTB use, though conversely the highest setting can feel a little too peaky for some riders. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. Already have an account with us? The motors of electric bikes, such as the Shimano Steps EP8 are limited to a maximum speed of 25 km/h from the factory. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. Just kidding! I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Wowzers! Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. 3. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. I have this motor. No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. I want to use the Shimano EP8 motor for a small production of solar bikes. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. Sources at numerous ebike suppliers have told Cycle Volta this week that releases of new EP8-equipped electric mountain bikes are being held up, on Shimano's direction. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Not everyone has the time to grind for an hour up the climb. oooof! I have ridden ebikes great fun,addictive, you gain some things , but lose some things as well, like all bikes a compromise. Absolutely. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. -- Wild Bill. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . We need to go deeper. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. As they say, power is nothing without control. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. My take away besides the obviously pro/con talking points was the weight of the bike. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. Posted Oct 21, 2020. is a broken record . Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. Stab happy!". With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. LEARN MORE Latest stories View all stories While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. Anyone having problems with the charger? By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). - Range estimation is not reliable. Too hot to handle even. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. 214 All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. Probably more than some rattle. Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. I do not have a car. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. Wait, 23-27kms? It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. - High quality display & controller Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. 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